#storytellerjewels Welcome to the telling of story podcast, I’m your host, storyteller jewels and along with my guests it’s my endeavor to explore the art and science of storytelling to attract, engage and retain a business audience and to unpack why it works for some and not for the many that try in today’s episode, I have the pleasure of talking with Wayne Maloney listen in as he talks about the use of stories and having patience when engaging a prospect and keeping their attention over long expanses of time. 

Wayne Maloney I think one of the most important things is to always make it about the prospect and not about your product. In fact, in the book we talk about not even mentioning your product until you’ve done a deep dive discovery and in working with that, that keeps the person interested because if you’re doing a good discovery and you’re helping them understand the issues that they may be facing and that better place, that they could be that thinking journey as you mentioned, which we use as well that will make the person interested in talking to you. Whereas if you just go out there and give them feature function benefit, it’s not going to keep them interested. So your stories need to be ones that will be stories of intrigue. They need to be stories of discovery to help the person make their own discovery and they need to be stories of education 

#storytellerjewels In today’s episode I have the pleasure of talking with Wayne Moloney, Wayne is an Australian business growth specialist with the global background for over four decades. In rolls from salesperson to managing director. He helped a diverse range of businesses in Australia, Asia and Europe achieved their revenue and profit goals. Since leaving his corporate career, Wayne has spent over 15 years helping B2B organizations tackle their business growth challenges through the application of sound sales and business strategies, developing salespeople and by applying Lean principles for sustainable sales success. Wayne was a co-founder of sales leader forums and a foundation member of sales masterminds. Apec. Wayne, welcome to the show. 

Wayne Moloney Thanks Jewels, Great to be here. May have been looking forward to our chat. 

#storytellerjewels Absolutely, thank you. Thanks for joining me. Tell me about the last 15 years, Wayne. What has been to be growth specialist entailed for you? 

Wayne Moloney That’s a really interesting question. I mean, B2B sales has probably changed more in the last decade um than it has in the last century, but it’s also not changed. And that that sounds silly in response. But a friend of mine, Ian Mohawk says the future of selling is in the past and I really believe him in what he’s saying there, sales hasn’t changed dramatically as far as the foundations and the basics of sales are concerned. What’s changed is the way buyers, By the way buyers get information and how salespeople need to adjust to that change the world. But the basics of selling are still very much the same. It’s all about delivering value to the client and making sure that you’re not just pushing your product out there because that’s not what that’s not authentic and it’s not really delivering value for myself. I jumped off the corporate treadmill as you said 15 years ago and over that period of time I’ve been working with a variety of customers from major Corporates, a couple of the telcos, but mainly focusing on businesses at the high end of the sme market because I’ve really found that they’ve been struggling to adjust because they’ve been real product pushes in the past in that area and they have really not been able to understand that change. And the fact that the buyer has so much more information available to them that the salesperson really these days needs to be what I refer to as a sense maker. They need to be able to help the person make sense of that information that they’ve got and how that would apply in the decisions that they’re making for their business. 

#storytellerjewels So Wayne working in the corporate world is very different to then sort of mentoring and coaching Whatever you learned through this sort of 15 years that you didn’t know, perhaps through the corporate world. 

Wayne Moloney I’ve been fortunate that I’ve had a lot of great mentors myself and I was in the corporate world. You know, I moved into a sales management position. Typically as many people did going back to when that happened and that was because I was a good salesperson. Um I wasn’t a good sales manager because I’ve never been trained in that area. So what I’ve really learned is that you need to continually learn and you need to continually seek someone to be a mentor. And I hadn’t done that as much as I should have in the corporate world. You tend to get into a position in corporate and especially in sales you have less peers around you that you can that you can join with and you can actually engage with and learn from. You know if you if you look at being in the c suite of sales environment, others in that area don’t really understand what you’re going through as a sales leader or a sales manager and they all think not all that’s been unfair. There’s a general perception that sales is not difficult. Sales is about building relationships and pushing a product to deliver a solution to a problem anyone that’s been in sales knows it’s very different to that. So in working with sales people and business owners in that high end sme market, it’s been very much around helping them understand that it’s not just about pushing that product, but it’s about digging deep and making discoveries and mentoring people to be able to do that. They can actually get down and dirty with the client and find out what it is that they’re really struggling with so that they can take them to a better place, they can deliver a better outcome for them. 

#storytellerjewels So, Wayne, you’ve taken a lot of your sales experience over the last four or five decades and you’ve written a sales book or should I say you’ve written another sales book? Tell us a bit about it and why is it different and why did you write this second one? 

Wayne Moloney I’d written two sales books previously, one on sales management and one on the basics of database selling. And you know, I’ve previously just what we’ve discussed, I’ve probably told why I did that and that’s because I believe the basics are being missed by a lot of people. And I also believe that sales managers need to understand the basics of sales management. My passion has always been high end corporate sales when I’ve actually been selling myself. So I always wanted to write a book about strategic, high end corporate sales. I put it on hold for quite a while and I’ve been doing a lot of work with a friend of mine, john Smythe and john and I have been working on developing a sales process that he’d had that had been building process called advance. And john and I have also worked on a couple of strategic projects and I approached him and said, how about you join me on this? And we do this as a joint effort, john agreed. But he wanted to write it as a sales novel. Another friend of ours, Tony Hughes had previously done that successfully. I’ve read a couple of really good novels about business, one being the e myth by Michael Gerber, another being the goal by Eli Gold Rat, which is about Lynn, which is an approach that I take to sales and all business. Um, so I thought, yeah, that’s a great idea. Let’s do that. It’s a great way of getting a message across and you know, I’m talking to the storyteller here, you know, how important it is to be able to tell a good story, but you also know how effective that isn’t getting a message across. So it sounded like a great idea. Um, we had quite a few false starts at it. And we really, we discovered fairly quickly that as novelists, we were great sales consultants and we tried a couple of ghost riders that didn’t work. A good friend of mine. Jeff Kellogg is a novelist and got a background in marketing, through advertising and he was mentoring me on how to go about writing this. And in the end, he just said, look, it’s not working, give it to me. And I’ll do it. And he went away and overnight came back with the first four chapters of what he thought, here, look at this. And john and I just, yes, Jeff, you’re on board, Please Save Us. And he did that. And it took us a long time to get through it. We went right back to the basics, we defined the archetypes of the people you would be involved with and the types of stories and how you would engage with each of these types of people in a sale. We went back and we put the synopsis together, we defined that and we’ve discovered we’ve developed what I think is a really good book and it’s actually quite interesting when you look at it, it’s not told like a textbook, it’s not you should do this, then you should do this and then you should do this because that’s very difficult to understand and it’s very difficult to take on board and remember. But as you know, when you tell a story, how you relay that story back yourself or to yourself, it’s going to change a little bit, but it’s not going to be the level of chinese whispers that you get when you go through a textbook or just a process. So the story remains and you start to understand how people engage in a sale because when you write a story you can bring the personalities into it. You can bring the politics of the deal, you can bring the different interaction between the decision makers, where you can’t do that in just writing a textbook. So telling it as a story has been a wonderful way for us to get that message across and the feedback has been has been really good. But what we did is outside the book. We built a website which has got all of the detail of the process that has been followed by the hero through in the book so that as someone reads it, they get to a section of the book, there’s a QR code, They can open that QR code, it takes them to the relevant section within our website and they can follow through the technical aspect of what’s being applied. So we’ve really tried to combine the best of both worlds, if you like, a story that that is intriguing. It brings into play the politics, the personalities, the sorts of things that will be encountered in a high end complex sale. But also people can then say, well if she did that, how did she do it? And they can go offline from the book and they can then discover how that was done. 

#storytellerjewels So, looking at your original book or one of your original books, achieving your sales success which you kindly gifted to me when we first met a couple of years ago, this is a very textbook oriented page by page, step by step, which is very detailed and it’s got a lot of awesome information in here, Which of the two novels, you know, sorry, books I should say, which are the two books are going to be more successful and why do you think that is? 

Wayne Moloney Look, there’s a I guess there’s a couple of things there um the the road back to achieving sales success which is one of it just showed there that’s a handbook and it’s a book where someone can pick it up and if you have a look at the contents, there’s all different sections, you know, it talks about the sales process, but it also talks about the need for your attitude to be correct. It talks about how you go about qualifying. So it’s a book that someone that’s that’s looking at speed to be sales can pick up and say, how do I identify the different personalities? And there’s a section in there about disk and the different personalities. And I change that disk into animals actually because I find that a lot easier to identify with. I talk about the hour The Lion, the Monkey and the Dog. And I find it much easier to identify a personality. You know, there’s the lion or there’s the monkey and what do you need to do to sell to that? So it’s not a book that was ever written for someone to start at the first page and read direct through to the end page. They can flick through it, they can take ideas out of it, they can go back and they say, oh look, I’ve got an issue here with forecasting, what can I do? They can open that section and have a look at it. So it was never meant to be an entire sales process if you like. It was, it was a collection of my experience over 40 years Will that be successful? Is it successful? Yes, but it’s very much targeted at people that want to one understand the basics of selling because there isn’t a silver bullet, you’ve still got to maintain and develop and build a strong foundation. It’s great for sales managers that want to be able to just pick bits out. And I’ve worked with a number of my clients that have just picked bits of that out and they all worked in a sales meeting or in a workshop on prospecting or on qualification or different aspects of it. And I can do that the same when I’m actually working one on one with a client, a group of sales people or an individual, the Wentworth prospect is totally different and it’s aimed very much at a different audience. It’s aimed at people, as I said, making those high end complex sales, the sales where there’s a decision making unit um that’s not easily defined, it’s it’s going to include people from finance from it, from security, from marketing, it’s going to include a whole lot of different people. So that book is written as a story so that we can bring all of those people into it and we can actually understand what each of the drivers for those individual people might be. So the two books are very different, I think, you know, would I write a B2B basics book as a story. I don’t think so because each of you in the basics, what I’m trying to get across there is these are the foundations that you need to have in place, there’s a lot of technology coming out to help buyers and sellers, but unless you’ve got these foundations in place, applying that technology really is not a great deal of benefit, you need to have the foundations, you need to understand process, you need to understand prospecting, you need to understand how to use the phone, which many people are saying, Yeah, I do, I text people, no, you don’t, you pick it up and you talk to people and you tell stories to them when you pick that up um you know, people have forgotten how to do that and we must get back to that and we must include it and then what we’ve done with the Wentworth prospect of, we’ve taken people to the next level of going through discovery and disruption so that you can actually work with someone and have the confidence to disrupt the way they think and people will buy what they want and not what they need, what we have to change that. You know, if you think about Henry ford, he once said if I asked them what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse, so what we’re trying to do in that Discovery and what we’re leading people through with the Wentworth prospect is not to just give a solution to what the person thinks they want, which is what some of the basics would be to be selling or like looking at features and benefits and function, but it’s about taking that deeper dive. And unless you do it in a story, you can’t really relay the way that’s done and the sorts of problems and pitfalls people will find along the way. Probably a long answer to a brief question, but I hope that covers it. 

#storytellerjewels Yes, it does. Thank you. When you mentioned that you had a couple of false starts at writing the book and then you brought in your novel writer, what was different about the first four chapters that he managed to do overnight versus the attempts that you had previously. 

Wayne Moloney He just grabbed our attention. You know, we were we were writing it, we were probably writing it as a sales story as distinct from a gripping novel. And, you know, you know, yourself Jewels from, from storytelling. I mean, you can sit down and you can hear stories from some people and they are relating something that’s happened in their life and it’s boring, you know, it just doesn’t grab you. And that was what was happening to john and I, even with the ghost writers, we had they didn’t the ghost writers didn’t understand business and we weren’t getting that message across to them. So we weren’t relaying our story as well as we should be in doing that, Jeff in coming on board. He knew me, he knew what I’ve been trying to do because I had spoken to him as a friend about it on a number of occasions, but when he actually put that story together or those first few paid the first few chapters, each chapter ended with a hook and you wanted to go to the next chapter. Whereas when we were writing it, we were writing it as almost just turning the process that we had into a story or and not a real good story. You know, we never finished with a hook. We never finished with someone going I want to go on to the next page and we shared that with a lot of people and they came back and said, yeah, look, it’s a good story, but you know, it’s not one that I’m going to sit there and read, I might put it down after a while and I may not come back to it, understand what you’re trying to achieve, but you’re not doing it well. Whereas Jeff being a novelist having a background in advertising copyrighting, he knew how to put a hook out there, he knew how to spin a good yarn. And that was what we ended up with, in no way did it diminish from the technical aspects. And as I said, we then put those very clearly outside the story, but it actually just people just read that the last version of it and they just said you have changed so much. You vow actually got something that I want to continue reading. And Jeff also in the first chapter, he killed the person that you would have thought was going to be the hero. And that just gripped people and was like, wow, what just happened? And what happened from that is the hero left, who the hero becomes Sue with a manifest that actually taught her how to go about and win this deal. So yeah, it was the difference between, I guess it’s a little bit of the difference between just a bedtime story and a gripping novel and we just weren’t capable of writing that 

#storytellerjewels one of the keys to good storytelling as you quite rightly mentioned earlier in that, in that monologue, there was the fact that you need to keep people’s attention. Um and you also talked about a hook, which brings them back in now from selling from your selling days, you know that to be true over long periods of time as well. So when you’re dealing with prospects through a journey of discovery, if you like, before even well before they reach our sales engagement in a sales pipeline phase, that you need to be able to keep their attention, what are some of the things that you learned through this process about both getting people’s attention and then holding that person’s attention. 

Wayne Moloney Yeah, that’s a really good question Jewels and I think it varies depending on the individual. We, as I said, we introduced six archetypes into this story and we’ve actually then created a series of six cards which talk about each of the archetypes and we’ve broken them into two separate areas, we’ve broken them into change agents and advocates. So if you’re telling a story to someone that, you know, we talk about the inquisitor as a change agent and the change agent that someone’s got the power either through position or personality to drive consensus. And the inquisitor is someone that’s going to going to pull your your proposal apart. So if you’re talking and engaging with an inquisitor, you’ve got to do it and tell stories in such a way that it actually, it actually provides evidence of success in the past and it actually provides evidence of qualification of the proposal that you’ve got there. So the stories you tell when you’re working with that individual need to be, ones that will address that in writing the book. And you talked about the hooks that we’ve got there, we actually put out in each of the instances taking on board each of the different archetypes that we’ve got. And we spoke about the different types of stories that needed to be told there, coming back to your question about in selling, how do you do that? I think one of the most important things is to always make it about the prospect and not about your product. In fact, in the book, we talk about not even mentioning your product until you’ve done a deep dive discovery and in working with that, that keeps the person interested because if you’re doing a good discovery and you’re helping them understand the issues that they may be facing and that better place, that they could be that thinking journey as you mentioned, which we use as well, that will make the person interested in talking to you. Whereas if you just go out there and give them feature function benefit, it’s not going to keep them interested. So, your stories need to be ones that will the stories of intrigue. They need to be stories of discovery to help the person make their own discovery and they need to be stories of education. There’s a good friend of mine, Paul Watson Canada that says, you know, I’m just trying to think of these words there, but it was Discovery is when you come to me and show me a problem, I didn’t know I had and deliver a solution I didn’t know I needed. And that’s the way you tell those stories, you’ve got to be delivering information in a way that will keep that person not intrigued. That keep that person interested in the sorts of information you’re providing and you don’t mention your product until you’ve got to a point where you know that that product is going to be or your service is going to be the best for taking that person through the next step that they need to go to, 

#storytellerjewels having been around sales for quite a long time myself, either directly doing it in part, but also being exposed to organizations who obviously sell into other markets. There’s always one or two, you know, particularly larger Corporates, you, you’ll see one or two sort of whatever, you know, often referred to as rock stars, that seemed to do a lot of this stuff naturally Where they’re nurturing a prospect and it doesn’t matter whether it’s a week long or whether it’s 18 months long. They naturally are able to take people along that journey to a point where they’re ready to engage and ready to do it for those that aren’t the rock stars. What is some advice that you might give those people like how do you tell a story like that to a different individual within an organization over a period of time that helps them get closer and remain engaged with you so that they get to the point where you can actually then present what you’re trying to do which is present your product or service and what, and tell me a little bit about the patience that’s required to be able to do that successfully. 

Wayne Moloney Yeah. Look, there’s a lot of patience. I’ll answer that last question first. There’s a lot of patients required because all too often a salesperson is really there and he wants to jump in, he’ll ask a question of someone and they will say, oh look, I’m suffering with this problem in my business and something will tweak inside them and they’ll go, oh our product will solve that and he’ll jump straight in and go, we can fix that with this. And you know, that really doesn’t take them on that thinking journey because what you may be able to deliver them is a hell of a lot more than what they think they want in just a solution to a problem. And in fact the sale made by Sue in the Wentworth prospect, she actually delivers something that is very different to what the client thought they wanted. We built it around cybersecurity and they just thought they wanted a better cybersecurity solution. But she took a totally different tact and through her discovery she discovered other issues that we’re facing the bank and she was able to address that and take those into it. So that’s really difficult. Now we just asked the question about individuals, I don’t think there’s anyone that’s got all of the stories that they would benefit from telling when they’re going through a sales process, but within your organization, there’s a lot of different stories that you need to build up a library. Now I don’t say learn these by wrote, I hate canned questions or can presentations, but if you understand, for example, your founder’s story, how did the business come about, how has it grown and put your own spin on that? And I mean spin in a legitimate way. But you know, you talk about it authentically, there’s no point me listening to Jewels a story and then going out there and trying to tell it as Jewels would tell it. I need to understand the facts and the reasons why the story is a benefit of value and where it would apply in my sales process and I need to tell it in Wayne’s way, not someone else’s. So a business should be looking to develop a library of stories that people can then access and what I’d be saying to any salesperson that doesn’t have those stories, ask the questions, ask the questions internally so that you can build up those stories, have a look at case studies that the company has put out there and ask the questions of why did we win that business? How do we deliver? What were the benefits to the client? And then you can build those stories up for yourself. But it’s really difficult to go out there and have the patience and the confidence to not go and try and push your product and get the sale early. You’ve got to engage early in the sales process so that you can influence in a positive way the buyer’s thinking and you can take them on that journey of discovery. But if you are not in early enough to do that, you’re going to be going in there at a point where you’re just going to be answering the questions that they’ve already got. You’re not going in there to be able to help them develop the question. So patients build up your own story library from talking to people within your business and talking to customers about why they made decisions, patients, as you said, not to rush in and push your product straight away and work on that, don’t be afraid to disrupt the clients thinking because you don’t necessarily want to go in there and just give them a faster horse. You want to start to deliver something different, which is the automobile, which is that what Henry ford did. 

#storytellerjewels You mentioned at the outset that the selling process itself fundamentally hasn’t really changed in decades and maybe longer. But the buyer themselves have changed and what has changed in most recent years, I think is the their access to information and their ability to self source the information that they would traditionally get from a salesperson. You know, before the turn of the century, if you wanted to buy a car, your mostly your only option was to go into a car yard and asked the salesperson about that car these days, you do all your research online, you know exactly what model, what make, what accessories you want, what color you want. And you literally walk in and you know, ask the salesperson for a price and given the power has shifted in that way a lot to the buyer themselves. What’s your advice perhaps from a sales context, but also from a marketing context and a company perspective is what’s missing. What are people not doing in the public space that allows the buyer to interact with them in such a way that they get a lot of that early information. They need to then want to engage with you later on at a sales process.

Wayne Moloney Before we started recording this. We were talking about podcasts and we were talking about writing articles new doing and a lot more of that over the last 12 months or so with COVID. People need to be engaging with their clients and their market before they are physically engaged with that person and they do that by putting information out there by becoming a domain expert, by promoting themselves either by getting in front of people as far as presentations, being guest speakers on webinars, putting articles out there doing podcasts, responding to to post on linkedin. You need to be seen as an industry expert. You need to be seen by a prospect as someone that can one help them make sense of the tsunami of information that they’re being flooded with at the moment. And to be seen as someone and you know, it’s a cliche term but seen as someone that could be a trusted advisor. Someone that could work with them not just to tell them about the product because that was what sales people used to do. They used to tell people about their product and how it could solve a problem. As you rightly said, people understand that now they go online and I’ve walked into the sales meeting with one of my clients and the prospect actually knew more about the product than the salesperson that I went in with because he’d done his research. So you know, that was critical. So that person needed to be in a position where they could add value by showing the person how they could improve the way they were doing business. Take them to a better position, give them a better outcome than where they were at the time. So sales has changed a lot in that respect. You’ve still got the process. But if you wait until the client has got all of the information and made their decision on what they’re going to buy, all you’re going to do is be in a transactional sale and it will come down to price similar to what you said with the car. But if you’re engaging early enough, you can influence the person’s thinking. You can show them how they can do business better to make more money, better profits to improve the processes that they’ve got or reduce costs. You know, they’re the sorts of things that people are most interested in and you as a sales expert need to be an expert in their domains so that you can do that. It’s no point, I’ll go back to, I actually joined the data communications industry way back in the early 80’s. I am that old um and I didn’t know anything about data communications, but I knew about business and one of my clients said and at the time my competitors were trying to derail me by going out and saying that I had no background in telecommunications in those days. It was all x telco engineers that were going into sales and one of my clients said, I understand I understand why they tried to derail you that way, but what you’ve done is you’ve actually shown us how to apply that technology to the business without understanding the technology because you understand our business and that’s what sales people have got to do. I did it early in my career and I did it probably because I didn’t understand the technology and that was my differentiator in the market and that was the way I delivered value and I did become a trusted advisor of my clients. But you know, you need to be one engage early engaged by building your personal profile to show that you can be a trusted advisor and you would be worthy of speaking to somebody of prospects speaking to you because you could add value to that conversation and then make sure you’re talking about their business and not your product. 

#storytellerjewels One of the things that I’ve noticed quite a lot lately is that there is plenty of activity on online as you know, and it’s growing at an ever increasing rate. But what frustrates me personally, coming from a storyteller sort of background is what you’ve just described there is that people are constantly pushing their product or service. Um the only time they appear online or on linkedin, for example, is they’ve got a new product to sell or there’s an event coming out, would you like to come along? So they’re constantly asking, what’s your advice to the young salesperson or maybe not so young salesperson who’s out there and wanting to make a difference rather than pushing their products, What’s this kind of things that they could be sharing? That makes a lot more sense and would bring somebody closer? 

Wayne Moloney Yeah, look, I mean, it depends very much on the industry. I’ve worked with a few smaller startups in manufacturing and they do need to push their product because the person, if you look at a business when it starts, it starts by selling a product of some sort. So, you know, they don’t have a lot of stories to tell. So they are pushing their product in the early stages, but it’s a matter of doing it in a way that is not forcefully shoving it down your clients or your prospects throat? It’s about understanding first, are they a real opportunity, do they feature a deal client profile and if they do well then you pursue that with them. But if they don’t learn to walk away quickly. So that’s the first thing I would say qualify hard, qualify fast and don’t be afraid to walk away if you don’t fit. Because if you try and force fit a product or a service into something that’s not really beneficial to the client, you’re not going to build a long term relationship and you’re going to impact your sales going forward. So advice to people that are going out there, that, as you say, people that have always had that, that build the product mindset, it’s really difficult to change that because it comes with confidence. And if you don’t have that confidence that you can walk away and you can find something else and you don’t have the confidence and the understanding that selling is about delivering value to another party and selling really is the exchange of mutual exchange of value. And if you can’t get that mutual exchange of value, you’re not really selling, you’re pushing something and you’re not delivering that high level of value to them all too often, people are just as you say on linkedin or, you know, the number of emails, I get that people just trying to push a product, I just delete them. But you know, some people are happy to play that numbers game. You know, it’s like a lottery, the more entries you get in, the more chance you’ve got a winning. But it’s just been, it seems a spam these days and it just doesn’t get you anywhere. You need to be creating value and you need to be seen as someone that can deliver something beneficial to the prior and the prospect and not just trying to find the next commission check if you like. 

#storytellerjewels Well, and I could talk about this with you for hours and days on end, but at some point we do have to wind up the podcast, but I do have a final question for you that I like to ask all my guests, if someone offered to donate $1 million dollars to your favorite charity and in return for five minutes of your time to pick your brain, what advice would you give them? 

Wayne Moloney Oh um that’s a that’s a really difficult question. You’re asking that around B to B sales, I would imagine whatever context makes sense. Okay, well look an answering that the B two B sales, If someone has said to me, I’m going to donate a million dollars to the cancer council, which would be my favorite charity. The advice I’d give to people is don’t always look for that silver bullet. Don’t believe all the hype that’s out there about If you do this, you’re going to win X number of sales. It doesn’t work. Sales is hard work. Sales relies on building on the foundations and sales relies on understanding emerging technologies and how can you adapt and adopt them to the way you sell so that you become more efficient. Technology is not going to replace the salespeople. It will in transactional sales, but people still need sales people to help them make sense. So my advice would be embraced. The technology. Don’t be scared by it and apply it as it’s beneficial to you. 

#storytellerjewels Great advice, Wayne, thank you so much. Where can I or weaken the prospects out there or sorry, prospects. Where can the listeners by your new book and where can they find out a little bit more about you 

Wayne Moloney As far as the book is concerned? Um, it’s available online wherever people do their purchasing so much of its selling on amazon these days. But if people go on online and google, google use their search engine to look for the Wentworth prospect, they will find find it and as I said it is on amazon, it’s available as a print book and e book and an audio book and as far as connecting with me, I think linkedin is probably the best place. So if they look for wayne maloney and that’s O N E Y. I want to connect with me, send me through a request and I’d love to start up a conversation with them and it’s been a pleasure. 

#storytellerjewels Thank you so much for being part of the show. 

Wayne Moloney Thanks Jewels. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed it and I hope that the value to your listeners. 

#storytellerjewels No, I enjoyed that chat with Wayne. He clearly has a depth of knowledge beyond his years. He’s been around the block for a long time and we could all learn a lot from Wayne and his stories that he tells. I think he put it beautifully when he said that there are three main things that you need to do. One build a profile to elevate yourself to a trusted advisor. And by doing so, you have the permission to invite them to engage early into a conversation. And when you have that conversation talk about their business and the problems they have, rather than the product or service that you sell. And those three things combined will take you a long way into a great conversation. They will ultimately, hopefully, and in the sale for you. Much love chat soon.